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 Post subject: GTA2 Map Editor Hacks
PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 4:47 pm 
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Updated 13.11.2010

Meanwhile i am remaking the editor, you might want to use my tuned version of DMA editor:
Attachment:
File comment: Tuned version 2.1
DMAEditorTunedByTMv21.7z [390.34 KiB]
Downloaded 1384 times


Changes:
  1. Fixed annoying tile selection bug when you clicked the last tile in the right side (started to scroll like hell before).
  2. Full size minimap, full size tiles (except in tile list), and exactly double size tile preview at the tilemenu.
  3. More intuitive design and naming.
  4. No more confusion with "open compressed uncompressed" radio button...
  5. Removed splash screen and some useless animation: executable now 1MB smaller in size!
  6. Removed some useless buttons.

All changes can be seen here:
Image

Compared to the original version:
Image


Thanks to Elypter for slopenames and finding out this great tool called "ResHack" which allowed me to rearrange/resize stuff and remove buttons that were useless etc.

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Last edited by T.M. on Sat Nov 13, 2010 1:14 am, edited 6 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:11 pm 
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  1. Does the tiles re-paint properly in XP now? That's the only change I'm really interested in.
  2. The Block panel sometimes doesn't update when making certain changes. Main view isn't updated when changing slopes. Those are worth fixing.
  3. Last time I used a ResHack version of DMA editor. After a few sessions, it totally corrupted the GMP I was working on. Couldn't open it in anything after that. Never used it again. Does your ResHack version avoid that kind of problem?
  4. Incidentally, slope 63 goes below the physical slope, not above.
  5. Also, the "Flat" checkbox doesn't mean the block is double-sided. You can flatten the West and then remove the East, for example. Also, you have to flatten both sides to get the "fence" effect on both sides of the block. You can apply it to the Lid and it has nothing to do with "double-sided-ness". I'd just it "Transparent".
  6. The grid for arrows is kinda nice, although compass directions (W, E, N, S, respectively) would be better than natural directions. (If you rotate the view then natural directions are all wrong.)
  7. Rotation is pretty lame as a combo select list. Just a plain select list would be correct. What's with the gap down th right, as if there's going to be a scrollbar?
  8. 256x256 minimap is a great improvement! Looks so sharp and accurate, now, just as it should be.
  9. Can you change the statusbar to display "(24,27,2)" instead of "X: 48 | Y: 27 | Z: 2"?

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 5:52 pm 
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  1. Unfortunately not, but the first row of tiles stays visible at all times XD
  2. Cant fix these, i think its programmatical error in the code, i have no way of telling it to update the images by just the resource settings.
  3. I tested compression, and so far no errors. If it doesnt work, you could use my compression i made, it works faster and better than DMA version (not public release yet).
  4. Indeed, but this is how its written in docs, that slope type should never be used anyways since its written internally by the editor on save-time.
  5. Thats why it says "side type" and not "block type" ;) "I'd just it Transparent", yeah, but that lacks information that you can see both sides of the side if you wish.
  6. Indeed. Although i dont see why its a problem since the block tiles preview doesnt rotate with camera either...
  7. Plain select list requires two clicks and is fking annoying to use. "What's with the gap down th right, as if there's going to be a scrollbar?" What gap? o.O
  8. Indeed!
  9. This is handled programmatically and i have no way to do this with resource editor.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:59 pm 
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TradeMark wrote:
  1. Cant fix these, i think its programmatical error in the code, i have no way of telling it to update the images by just the resource settings.
  2. This is handled programmatically and i have no way to do this with resource editor.


You can use IDA to edit the code. http://www.hex-rays.com/idapro/

Good luck, you will need it. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:05 pm 
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1) What a pity it (still) doesn't render the tiles properly - that is my biggest issue really with mapping since I stopped using Windows 98 SE all those years ago (where it worked perfectly). :( Still, any person who half-knows the STY file will generally remember the places of the tiles they want to use, and if that doesn't work, the eye-dropper tool is great!

4) If I remember, slope 63 is just a reference that there is a slope cube above it and is always added (though you can remove it - not seen any issue removing it). But yes, it seems a rather pointless slope type.

5) I don't mind it remaining as "Flat" despite how un-informative it is (old school GTA2'er here!). As Ben said, just because it can go transparent doesn't mean you want both sides to it (useful in certain situations). Not sure using "Transparent" will do it either, as the first thing that comes to mind is making the entire tile... transparent! :shock:

9) I quite like having the X-Y-Z coordinates in status bar, handy as a quick reminder at times ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 10:40 pm 
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Pyro wrote:
5) I don't mind it remaining as "Flat" despite how un-informative it is (old school GTA2'er here!). As Ben said, just because it can go transparent doesn't mean you want both sides to it (useful in certain situations). Not sure using "Transparent" will do it either, as the first thing that comes to mind is making the entire tile... transparent! :shock:
What about "transparent and/or double faced" ?

I certainly am not using "flat" word in my final version of the editor, since it blew my brain when i started reading the docs first time... oh the confusion when i stumbled upon the word "ped" too!

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:23 pm 
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Thanks for the fast replies!

  1. Tile picker loses all tiles but keeps the scroll position as soon as my mouse moves into the main viewport. (This is slightly worse than DMA editor, which often keeps the tiles of the page I am looking at for a little while.)
  2. Sty Tool open in the background with the Info panel selected is a fairly good work-around.
  3. My screen has 1,200 vertical pixels. I have plenty of space for the tiles picker control to be ~930 pixels high. Could you make a build with it that size for me, pl0x?
  4. Also, could the "Selected" frame be made 128x128? The only reason to have something like that is if it gave a zoomed-in view of what you just selected.
  5. The correctly sized tiles in Block view are even nicer to see that I expected.
  6. Also...I finally see traffic arrows again! Vaguely remember Elypter or B-$hep's version did this, too.
Haven't dared to save a map with it, yet. Maybe the UI for your editor will be influenced by these refinements? ;)

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Last edited by BenMillard on Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:46 pm 
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  1. Old version didnt do this? Hmm... maybe i messed some settings while trying to fix the tiles XD gotta check the defaults.
  2. You mean for finding the tile number? Speaking of that, how do you change tile texture by just writing the tile number manually...?
  3. Doesnt the latest version of ResHack work with your computer? Try it first, im not going to make everyone their own versions for every possible resolution XD
  4. Indeed, i was thinking the same, i'll double the size.
  5. Indeed they are!

BenMillard wrote:
Haven't dared to save a map with it, yet.
Why not? just backup before saving.

BenMillard wrote:
Maybe the UI for your editor will be influenced by these refinements? ;)
Perhaps ^^ Although, many things like slope list and arrows setup wont be the same. I think.

Edit: I am afraid i cant fix the tilemenu drawing bug you have when you move mouse at render window... perhaps this problem isnt becaues of my new version, Be sure that you test both versions exactly the same window position etc, might be some stuff under or above the window that makes this bug appear, (this is how i can reproduce the bug).

--

Grr... i hate it how i cant give pixel sizes to the objects; i cant make exactly 64x64 tile or 256x256 minimap, it always becomes 65x64 and 257x256 -_-

Edit 2: I changed the "transparency enabled and/or double faced" to: "transparency and dual face enabled" What you think which one fits most?

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Last edited by T.M. on Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 1:41 pm 
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Narrower gaps - or no gaps - in the Tile picker would be nice. Making it scroll vertically, support scrollwheel, and auto-size to the available height in that panel would be sweet. But that would take code.

TradeMark wrote:
BenMillard wrote:
Haven't dared to save a map with it, yet.
Why not? just backup before saving.
I make lots of backups - Tiny Hidden Surprise Arena is nearly on version 30. I'd still lose about an hour of detailed texture, collision, animation, traffic and slope work from that session. (I like to get a lot done between tests.) It's extremely annoying trying to remember that many changes due to that version of the map being corrupted - often won't remember them all until weeks or months later.

Autosave is often a cause of crashes, in DMA editor. If I'm drawing a lot of tiles in one go, and autosave starts while I'm drawing, it nearly always crashes. So I set the autosave to 60 minutes, as I've usually done a Save Compressed before then.

TradeMark wrote:
Edit 2: I changed the "transparency enabled and/or double faced" to: "transparency and dual face enabled" What you think which one fits most?
Just call it "Flat" or "Flatten" or "Transparency" or "Flatten with transparency" as the absolute maximum. Less is more! We've all understood what it does by calling it "Flat" for 11 years.

Yeah, I'll try out ResHack. Is it stable to res-hack a res-hacked version?

Does Alt+Letter work if you change captions to have ampersand (&) character? DMA editor has some underlined letters but they don't know. Whoa, try selecting some blocks and use Alt+Q and Alt+A in DMA editor. Lets you move them up to Z: 7 but they aren't drawn by editor...might try doing that and testing in-game. (Think Pyro may have done that in the past but results aren't online, afaict.)

(EDIT) Should we get Sektor to Split this thread as we aren't talking about your actual map editor now?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:10 pm 
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I vaguely remember from the time when i made my modded version that the visibility could not be improved without this kind of focus losing reaction.

during the development i made a version with some slight changes:
-rigid toolbar which has all elements in it. I put all buttons of the toolbars in the first one. Thats useful if your editor doesnt save the toolbar positions. And when you use it for the first time you don't have to add the other ones.
-the "8" in the slope dialog is in another position
-I gave the "flat" button the name "Transparent or double faced"
-The Tile list now behaves like the original again


Attachments:
Editor.zip [524.81 KiB]
Downloaded 615 times

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:21 pm 
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BenMillard wrote:
Narrower gaps - or no gaps - in the Tile picker would be nice. Making it scroll vertically, support scrollwheel, and auto-size to the available height in that panel would be sweet. But that would take code.
Unfortunately i cannot change those.

BenMillard wrote:
I make lots of backups - Tiny Hidden Surprise Arena is nearly on version 30. I'd still lose about an hour of detailed texture, collision, animation, traffic and slope work from that session. (I like to get a lot done between tests.) It's extremely annoying trying to remember that many changes due to that version of the map being corrupted - often won't remember them all until weeks or months later.
You should ctrl+s every 30 seconds. Thats what i am used to do with programs that are likely to crash. Or did your uncompressed map saving crash too...? I also remember the compression crashed the map editor for me few times... has nothing to do with ResHack. So better save every minute uncompressed and then compress when you are ready to test.

BenMillard wrote:
Just call it "Flat" or "Flatten" or "Transparency" or "Flatten with transparency" as the absolute maximum. Less is more! We've all understood what it does by calling it "Flat" for 11 years.
Flatten means nothing, we could as well call it "paper" and learn that paper makes this and that, but for new users absurd words are a braincracker. Although, i think the best approach is to hide the button from users, and call it only "enable transparency" and let the editor handle the tricks to set both sides different tile texture. Like, you could draw a line of wall that has two sides, without you need to figure out which slopetype (called lid type in my version) to use to prevent errors etc.

BenMillard wrote:
Yeah, I'll try out ResHack. Is it stable to res-hack a res-hacked version?
I have got no crashes or errors. What OS you have?

BenMillard wrote:
Does Alt+Letter work if you change captions to have ampersand (&) character?
What captions and why?

BenMillard wrote:
Lets you move them up to Z: 7 but they aren't drawn by editor...might try doing that and testing in-game. (Think Pyro may have done that in the past but results aren't online, afaict.)
Really? I thought GTA2 ignores the highest Z-level (so, so does my editor).

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:07 pm 
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GTA2 map editor only supports Z:0 to Z:6 (meaning the player can stand on Z:1 to Z:7), but by manually scripting cubes you can make them appear at Z:7 and player standing at Z:8. Any higher than this will not render in game (need to double check the correct height). On the other end, trying to go lower than Z:0 will also make it not render either.

Could be useful in some instances such as making taller buildings I suppose. I always wished it was possible to have a Z level of more than 7 but would need to re-write the renderer ;)

Edit: It would be a good idea to split this topic into your own Zone Editor and a new modified official editor topic.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 7:16 pm 
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Pyro wrote:
by manually scripting cubes you can make them appear at Z:7 and player standing at Z:8. Any higher than this will not render in game

Doesnt work. At least not properly.

Try this:
Code:
ADD_NEW_BLOCK ( 18, 39, 7 )
CHANGE_BLOCK TYPE ( 18, 39, 7 ) FIELD 0
CHANGE_BLOCK LID ( 18, 39, 7 ) NOT_FLAT NOT_FLIP 2 0 352


I tried this and, well, the block wasnt rendered, but if I went to 18, 39, 2, I could see that arrow that shows up when you go under a block, and when I pressed the teleport button (numpad 0 with debug keys enabled), game crashed.. maybe this should be added to the "weirdness collection" thread


Pyro wrote:
Edit: It would be a good idea to split this topic into your own Zone Editor and a new modified official editor topic.

agreed

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:14 am 
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Updated with comparison images and more info about changes.

Edit: Fixed the shortkeys problem!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:20 pm 
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I downloaded from the first message but it doesn't have the big Selected preview tile.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:10 pm 
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Thats odd. Screenies?

Can you see it with ResHack ? (dialog 110)

Whats your OS?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:00 pm 
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Oh, I hadn't copied it to the same folder as the DMA editor.

Please don't give it the same filename. Someone might overwrite the DMA editor by accident, if they don't rename your version first.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:18 pm 
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Indeed, i just thought it would be more self explanatory how to "install" it...

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 10:17 pm 
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Maybe it was done before but now you can download TM's version of DMA editor with XP Themes. I think Elypter did stuff for that, too?

I used the free XN Resource Editor to add a XP Manifest File. Was a piece of cake. End result is a bit nicer, I think.

Image Image Image

(EDIT) Oops, link fixed.

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Last edited by BenMillard on Sun Jun 05, 2011 4:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:25 am 
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looks nice but the link is down

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