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PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:11 pm 
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It is a shrinked version of tinytown

http://elypter.net84.net/gta2.tk/maps.html#tyty

it also includes the new version of Tiny Tiny Town Army

Tiny Tiny Town Army has Army and many many features.

i cannot describe them all. you can get an overview by looking at an half year old incomplete list:
viewtopic.php?p=2386#p2386

topdown view:
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/3123/tytytown.jpg

screenshot attatched


Attachments:
File comment: A shrunken version of Tiny Town
tiny_tiny_town.jpg
tiny_tiny_town.jpg [ 303.53 KiB | Viewed 39642 times ]
File comment: screenshot
tyty.jpg
tyty.jpg [ 161.49 KiB | Viewed 39710 times ]

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Last edited by elypter on Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:50 am, edited 4 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 12:46 am 
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Strange but slightly amusing.

Add this line to make it look the same in dusk as noon.

SET_AMBIENT_LEVEL (1.0, 0)


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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 1:50 am 
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nice but i found some bugs:
Attachment:
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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:55 pm 
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Thanks for reporting bugs.
I tried to fix them, but i didnt know what is bogus in these areas (or not in all of them)

this is the (partially) fixed version (edit attachment removed, see first post for latest version)

1 problem remains: The Traffic in the S-Curve is not working all the time; I tried to play around with the driving directions but i did not find a fully satisfing solution

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Last edited by elypter on Wed Dec 30, 2009 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:26 pm 
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gustavo explain him cose my english sux :)


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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 5:43 pm 
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Razor wrote:
gustavo explain him cose my english sux :)

lol

Elypter: Razor meant that the cars need more space to turn, they need at least one block of empty space in each side of the corner to turn, or else they can get stuck on the road and (maybe) explode. Just do the same what you done to the southwestern building: remove one block of the wall in the lower part.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2009 10:45 pm 
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In the east there is no traffic. in the middle east i havent seen any problems yet.

In the S-Curve:
i deleted some blocks but that doesnt have any effect. I also testet the S-Curve outside the city-area with lost of space. The result: There must be at least 4 blocks with straight street before there can be a curve in the same direction again.

My workaround idea: Reduce the traffic in this area

i added 2 small general zones to my map
and this to the mission file:
MAP_ZONE nocars1 = ( 0 , 350 , 200 , 0 , 1000 , 100 , 100 , 100 , 700 , 0 , 450 )
MAP_ZONE nocars2 = ( 0 , 350 , 200 , 0 , 1000 , 100 , 100 , 100 , 700 , 0 , 450 )

But then there are no cars anywhere on the map

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 12:43 am 
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elypter wrote:
in the middle east i havent seen any problems yet.

You should watch the news more often.
elypter wrote:
i added 2 small general zones to my map
and this to the mission file:
MAP_ZONE nocars1 = ( 0 , 350 , 200 , 0 , 1000 , 100 , 100 , 100 , 700 , 0 , 450 )
MAP_ZONE nocars2 = ( 0 , 350 , 200 , 0 , 1000 , 100 , 100 , 100 , 700 , 0 , 450 )

But then there are no cars anywhere on the map

That's because you've set the cardensity to '0', which means no cars will be created. Increase the first value to make cars spawn. See GTA2 Scripting.doc:

Quote:
MAP_ZONE name = ( cardensity , goodcarratio , bad car ratio , police car ratio , ped density , mugger ratio , car thief ratio , elvis ratio , gang char ratio , police ped ratio , gang car ratio)

car density how busy the zone is for cars
good car ratio ratio of “good” quality models
bad car ratio ratio of “bad” below average quality models
police car ratio the chance of getting a patrolling police car driving around as a dummy

ped density how busy the zone is for characters
mugger ratio frequency of mugger peds
car thief ratio frequency of car thieves
elvis ratio frequency of elvis peds
gang char ratio frequency of getting random gang members
police ped ratio frequency of getting a policeman walking around as a dummy
gang car ratio frequency of getting a gang car generated

Densities work in a range of 0 to 1000. 0 guarantees no cars/peds are created, 1000 means the game will attempt to make 2 cars each cycle, 3 peds. 500 means 1 car each cycle, approx 1 or 2 peds.

Car Ratios:
All car ratios must add up to 1000 and again work on a sort of percentage style. If you have a good car ratio of 100, then 1 time in 10, a good car will be created. If that ratio was 500, then 1 in 2 would be “good”. On top of the ratios listed, there is an “average car ratio” which is automatically calculated
average ratio = 1000 - (goodcar ratio + badcar ratio + policecar ratio)

Thus, if you want no average cars, make sure all other ratios add upto 1000.
e.g. a high class neighbourhood with little crime,
goodcar 600 badcar 0 policecar 300 (average thus 100)

a rundown, crimeridden neighbourhood
goodcar 0 badcar 700 policecar 0 (average thus 300)


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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:30 am 
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Even if cars don't spawn there, they can still drive there. And you need cars spawning outside of player respawn points, otherwise you'll get the dreaded "no cars bug."

Also, cop cars should have access to all "public" areas of the level to make them chase you properly. You can use emergency directions to give them access to special areas. Well, the documentation says that. I'm not sure if it actually works.

You can have turns quite close, it's just they might get into the wrong lane or block other traffic. Quite a few places in the original levels have problems like that. Can make it easier to steal a car after you respawn, which is a good thing.

For really tight areas with buildings either side, you can cut the inside building at 45 degrees to let cars go over a bit of pavement. Then you can have proper pavement around the outside, for other traffic.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:39 pm 
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Elypter: I found a little problem on your map. In the north-western building, you used the half-sized block slope tipe on that wall. This slope makes the walls unsolid, wich means I can get inside the building and fall on water and die. To fix this just add some wall tiles one block before the half-sized block, this makes the player still get a bit inside building but then hit a wall and avoid some weird suicides.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Fri Jan 01, 2010 4:55 pm 
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@Ben
Thanks for the info.
I just want to reduce the traffic, so cars do not get stuck too often.
I moved all spawn zones and player start positions outside of the nocars zones. But its still not working. I also tried to activate only 1 of the zones, but this doesnt work either.
could you have a look at the files please, maybe something is missing.
@Gustavob
fixed it

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Sun Jan 03, 2010 5:06 am 
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You've certainly taken some size out of it, whilst keeping faithful to the original. Who'd have thought Tiny Town could be any smaller! Seems you are halving all the big open spaces and then adjusting the roads and buildings to suit. That's a good approach which should work well, if done with enough attention to detail.

I thought about making the changes in this list for you. But I start work again tomorrow and have to get lots of errands sorted out!

  1. GTA2 maps should be optimised because it's currently over 6MB when unzipped.
  2. The "trouble spots" Razor circles are correct.
  3. S-bend often gets full of traffic in original. It's a good thing, easier to steal a car from respawn and often creates a tactical area where exploding cars near your opponent and throwing molotovs accurately adds variety to the fighting.
  4. I would keep the heights the same as original level (Z axis), so the level still has visual depth. GTA2 can look a bit flat if all buildings are low. I see flamer buildings must be a bit shorter because there's no space for a long ramp to their rooves. A few things like that will be inevitable, when shrinking a small level.
  5. Very nice job shrinking the Rocket Launcher building. Just check for missing edges of roof tiles and also some heights are wrong.
  6. Maybe entrance tunnels to this building should be 1 cube wide instead of 2? Then you can keep the alcoves for some cars.
  7. Wrong wall textures in many places. (Instant Gang buildings and the East part of the pair near (74,116) has wrong flipping, as examples.)
  8. Both sides could be 1 block narrower for the pair of buildings near (74,116) but cutting the 45 degree part of highest roof level more tightly. Should make the lower roof part 1 block narrower at either end, too, since it's only 2 cubes wide in original.
  9. Additionally, the West part of that pair should be 1 block narrower than East part. Check the original level.
  10. Overhangs in the South-West are annoying. I would just cut those South buildings back by 1 cube, so pavement is fully exposed. (Opaque overhangs in GTA2 are usually annoying, unless you use the quarter-block special pieces. They might have strange collision, though?)
  11. Remove overhangs at (48,177), they weren't like that in original level.
  12. Remove overhangs at (73,125), they weren't like that in original level.
  13. I completely agree with pavement behind this building being 1 cube wide instead of 2. The corners are quite easy due to 45 degree walls.
  14. Remove 1 cube from South part of this building; it's only 2 cubes in original.
  15. There are missing pavement edges around the 45 degree parts of many buildings.
  16. Some road markings don't link up, such as S-bend in South.
  17. Gantry for Vehicle Mines should not be a ramp.
  18. Building at (63,162) should not block the pavement. Maybe restore the pavement along this road? Means adding some size back to the level but this North road was always a "fast and open" route in original level.
  19. U-bend around the alley for Vehicle Machine Guns can work for traffic. Put the pavement around the outside and cut the inside curves at 45 degrees.
  20. You could remove 1 block of width from building for Vehicle Machine Guns. The hole in its roof is nearly square in original.
  21. Stairs at (66,115) could start 1 block further West and use the shallower gradient, to be easier to drive.
  22. Partial slopes cannot have an end face, so you'll get graphical glitches. See the North face of (60,108). This gradient is wrong in the first place; it's maximum steepness in original.
  23. With such a tight level, I would avoid doubling-up the edges to floor tiles. For example, don't have a pavement edge joining the edge of a road; let the kerb act as the edge to both the pavement and the road.
  24. Building at (74,128) should not block pavement. Perhaps make road to Vehicle Mines 1 lane wide with the pavement staying with the road? That might give traffic more space to turn, too.
  25. Ramp at (67,127) is not high enough. There are 2 spare blocks East of it, so you can continue it upwards. (This avoids needing non-original ramps at (63,121) and (64,120) as well.)
  26. Tower at (50,111) should be 1 cube in size. Original was 2x2 and this keeps it square.
  27. Box at (63,114) should be 1 block higher, like original level. Move Machine Gun to (64,115) so it all fits.
  28. Grass at (82,119) should line up with the building.
  29. Remove corner of building at (86,120). You are right to slightly change the from original building, but you can at least keep these part.
  30. Slope for that building is too steep; you will take damage when dropping off South end too easily. Also, the slope nearly touches the tower in original anyway.
  31. The tower of that building should be 1 block higher, so you cannot run into the chimney.
  32. Slope at (83,116) should be shallower and go 1 block further West. Roof in original level is weird...I think that valley was accidental when they mirrored the outer part of the building. But the main slope certainly starts at the far West of the building, even with that weird bit.
  33. Grass at (91,115) should move 1 block East because it did not align with West edge of that building in original.
  34. Grass at (91,115) could also go 1 block North, so the pavement touches the road all the way along. Will also avoid a weird tile at (90,115).
  35. Building just North of this has its roof levels the wrong way around. The lower level should go 1 block further North; the upper level should go 1 block less far South. Check proportions in original level: lower level is bigger.
  36. Road running East-West from (79,123) could move 1 block South, removing the South pavement. Given the direction of traffic, that should actually help. Keep the pavement at (90,123).
  37. Remove the car park tile from (76,182) and move the East building West by 1 block. Then add an alcove to South-East corner of this courtyard. That will match original a bit better. Might enable you to remove a bit more from the East side of the building, helping traffic turn from West to South. (Just in case moving that road South isn't enough by itself.)
  38. Great idea to make the road North of that car park 1 lane instead of 2; and the others in that central block of buildings.
  39. Your interpretation of the Electrogun island is perfect. But maybe reduce the gap you have to jump from 4 cubes to 3 cubes? There is less distance to accelerate and less landing area, too.
  40. Buildings would repeat automatically if you move entire level to South-East corner of the map. (If you move the camera whilst flying from an explosion in certain places, you can see edges of the buildings in original.)
  41. Check all surface types and traffic directions by pressing 2 in the editor. It might remind of you Tron and make you feel a bit ill, at first, but it's a very handy mode.
    1. Traffic direction beneath an overhang at (70,120).
    2. Road instead of Pavement at (80,121) and (80,119).
    3. Field instead of Pavement for 4 blocks near (77,114).
    4. Field instead of Pavement for 4 blocksnear (88,174).
    5. Field instead of Pavement for line of blocks from (63,108) to (72,108).
    6. Field for entire Electrogun area is correct, as original.
    7. Field instead of Pavement for 2 blocks near (52,111).
    8. Field instead of Road for central car park near (74,123).
    9. Many rooves are not Field, mainly in North and North-West.

Certainly has potential. Unlimited ammo and instant respawning weapons could make this an excellent hybrid between arena chaos and tight car chases.

I would like this level to set a trend for other map makers to follow. You can improve a level by making it smaller! :ugeek:

(EDIT) Here's a suggested script, with max ammo and instant respawning weapons:
Code:
// Tiny Tiny Town by Elypter
// Suggested script by Ben Millard

// Weapons
GENERATOR coctail1 =  (49.5, 116.0) 0 COLLECT_04 0 0 99
GENERATOR shotgun  =  (66.5, 128.5) 0 COLLECT_06 0 0 99
GENERATOR rocket   =  (93.5, 129.5) 0 COLLECT_02 0 0 99
GENERATOR health   =  (57.5, 115.5) 0 COLLECT_30 0 0
GENERATOR grenade  =  (81.5, 125.5) 0 COLLECT_05 0 0 99
GENERATOR pistol1  =  (78.5, 118.5) 0 COLLECT_00 0 0 99
GENERATOR pistol2  =  (56.5, 130.5) 0 COLLECT_00 0 0 99
GENERATOR dual     =  (51.0, 118.0) 0 COLLECT_10 0 0 99
GENERATOR mg1      =  (64.5, 114.5) 0 COLLECT_01 0 0 99
GENERATOR mg2      =  (90.5, 115.5) 0 COLLECT_01 0 0 99
GENERATOR electro  =  (80.5, 108.5) 0 COLLECT_03 0 0 99
GENERATOR flamer   =  (56.5, 125.0) 0 COLLECT_08 0 0 99
GENERATOR coctail2 =  (61.5, 129.5) 0 COLLECT_04 0 0 99
GENERATOR oil      =  (55.5, 117.5) 0 COLLECT_16 0 0 99
GENERATOR mines    =  (66.5, 120.5) 0 COLLECT_17 0 0 99
GENERATOR vmg      =  (95.5, 119.5) 0 COLLECT_18 0 0 99
GENERATOR amour    =  (84.5, 116.5, 2.0) 0 COLLECT_31 0 0
GENERATOR invuln   =  (76.5, 124.5) 0 COLLECT_34 0 0
GENERATOR gang     =  (58.5, 123.5) 0 COLLECT_40 0 0

// Players
PLAYER_PED p1 = (057.5, 131.5, 2.0) 10 0
PLAYER_PED p2 = (154.5, 112.5, 2.0) 11 0
PLAYER_PED p3 = (194.5, 115.5, 2.0) 12 0
PLAYER_PED p4 = (173.5, 122.5, 2.0) 13 0
PLAYER_PED p5 = (169.5, 127.5, 3.0) 14 0
PLAYER_PED p6 = (182.5, 122.5, 2.0) 14 0



LEVELSTART


// Environment
SET_AMBIENT_LEVEL (1.0, 0)
DECLARE_POLICELEVEL (5) // FBI

// Weapons
SWITCH_GENERATOR (coctail1, ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (shotgun,  ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (rocket,   ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (health,   ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (grenade,  ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (pistol1,  ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (pistol2,  ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (dual,     ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (mg1,      ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (mg2,      ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (electro,  ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (flamer,   ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (coctail2, ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (oil,      ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (mines,    ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (vmg,      ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (amour,    ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (invuln,   ON)
SWITCH_GENERATOR (gang,     ON)



LEVELEND
Strange how you had everything inside LEVELSTART-LEVELEND. Is there an advantage? Keeping it separate makes the code better grouped, to my mind. Declares first, then running code afterwards. Like real programming.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:05 pm 
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It took a while to work through all the points, but thanks for looking through it so closely.
I did not realize all of the points because they would have negative side-effects.
If you like you can modify this map like you described and then we can compare what fits better by looking at 2 existing maps.
Everyone looks at different details of the buildings, so it isnt always easy to decide what could be deleted.

about the Trafficproblem: If cars get stuck sometimes, that isnt bad, i agree with you in this case, but in multiplayer it might happen that most of the available cars are stuck in one place of the map.
Is it possible to work with trafficlights there, and how would that work in this place?

I also have another problem: when you stand on the small stairs at the mg-"plattform" and walk east you get "under" it, when you walk back you fall into water
is there any way to solve that?
-->fixed it now

1 did it in second b1
3 i dont disagree with that, but if it happens too fast and too often it might become difficould to drive from east to west
4 i did not want the buildings look too thin
5 changed partially, some tiles are wanted to have more variety, and 85,128 is inevitable because an needed tile does not exist
6 i thought that too, but it should not be too hard to get in there, for me it would not be a big problem, but many players would have to slow down before driving into the yard wich would change the gameplay of the map quite a lot.
7 changed it
8 i think the buildings already look very narrow right now
9 in shrinked version the difference between the 2 buildings would be too big
10 changed it
11 original has a little recess there with dual pistols and making the roof smaller in this way it would look strange
12 i reduced it, in my opinion there must be a bit place, so it isnt harder to drive
14 there is no 1x1 tile for this roof/pavement texture
15 changed it
16 changed it
17 changed it
18 compared to the southern road it is quite open, but i agree that the map must be as open as possible. But buildings should also not look too small compared to roads/pavement
19 i wanted to be consistent with the small roads in the central, and stuck cars in front of the entrence of vmg would also be annoying especcially when there is not much space around
20 then the tunnel and the main building have the same size wich looks strange
21 changed it
22 but i changed the hight of the building too
23 i changed it in some places
24 i think this edge of the building is quite characteristic,
25 the building would have to be 1 block higher in general, but i think this would be too high compared to the other ones. i also tested if it has positive effect on traffic, but it hasn't
26 there is no 1x1 tile for that roof
27 that would add too many edges and take too much space from the mg "platform"
28 changed it
29 changed it
30 with the change of 29 there wouldnt be any flat roof left, and you could have taken damage in the original map too
31 the tower would look too thin if it is higher, but i could add a collision command for the chimney in script
32 i think this map needs at least 1 big open area, so i made this building as small as possible
33+34 changed it partially
35 you're right, but it looks strange when the higher part is only 1 block, i would have to add 1 block behind but then the coastline would change.
36 i think that would delete the characteristic grenades edge
37 i thought about shrinking that building, but i did not find a way without loosing the characteristics, maybe you could try it.
39 changed it
40 i added a wall, thats not like the original, but i think its not bad if tinytown is an island. additionally i dont have to move the items, and someone who maybe wants to edit this map later doesnt have to do it too
41 e: too many peds there would be a bit irritating i think
corrected everything else


I moved the declares before levelstart, it was just easier to copypaste the other way
and i added an arena-script with unlimited ammo/0 respawn/fbi

Edit: forgot to make chimneys solid ->now i tried it but did not find the command

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Last edited by elypter on Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:55 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:13 pm 
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elypter wrote:
I also have another problem: when you stand on the small stairs at the mg-"plattform" and walk east you get "under" it, when you walk back you fall into water
is there any way to solve that?


The problem is the Tile Collision Info. The collision info for that tile is set as "none", then everything, including players, peds, bullets and cars, can pass through the tile. To fix this just right click the tile in tile selector and click Wall+Bullet, this way nothing can pass through it

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 9:37 am 
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Gustavob wrote:
elypter wrote:
I also have another problem: when you stand on the small stairs at the mg-"plattform" and walk east you get "under" it, when you walk back you fall into water
is there any way to solve that?


The problem is the Tile Collision Info. The collision info for that tile is set as "none", then everything, including players, peds, bullets and cars, can pass through the tile. To fix this just right click the tile in tile selector and click Wall+Bullet, this way nothing can pass through it


tnx, uploaded changes in the post above

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 10:04 am 
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You really should add number of players to SCR filename.
For example, if you have 6 players then SCR filename should be like this:

tytytown_b1_6p.scr
tytytown_b1_arena_6p.scr
6p means, 6 players in SCR.

OK, this time you released script but still, it would be better.


I downloaded beta 1 pre zip to test my SCR tool. It reports the coordinates just like you have scripted.



Thanks for your scripts.

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:54 pm 
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B-$hep wrote:
You really should add number of players to SCR filename.
For example, if you have 6 players then SCR filename should be like this:

tytytown_b1_6p.scr
tytytown_b1_arena_6p.scr
6p means, 6 players in SCR.

OK, this time you released script but still, it would be better.


I downloaded beta 1 pre zip to test my SCR tool. It reports the coordinates just like you have scripted.



Thanks for your scripts.


do you mean that i should add the maximum number of players to the filename, or should i make 6 independant scrs for each number of players?
btw: why do the stock-maps use 6 scrs each? is there any advantage, it seems to work with the 6players scr too?

and "beta 1" (without pre) is the newest

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:59 pm 
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Making 6 scripts when 1 does the job fine would be messy and make it harder to maintain. I don't know why Rockstar did it the way they did.

B-$hep means add the maximum number of players to the filename. It makes it possible for the current SCR Tool to detect how many players the map can support.


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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:46 pm 
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ah ok.
i will do this in the next release

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 Post subject: Re: Tiny Tiny Town
PostPosted: Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:39 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 6:14 am
Posts: 889
Location: London, UK
Elypter, glad you appreciated the advice and took it in the way it was meant. 8-)

I think you can delete the attachments which are old when you edit your first message. Saves confusion about which version people should download.

I would expect something in the structure of the .scr could be used to detect how many players are present. Even if it's just looking for whatever byte sequence indicates a PLAYER declare in a loop until you get them all.

Also, the associated .mmp files already have that data. We aren't going to re-release every level ever made for GTA2 just to change one filename. Especially when the only reason is so a tool 3 people use doesn't have to look at .mmp files or search the .scr format more carefully! :P

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