Epic GTA2 Map Editor (0.6.6602) Beta

[Salamander]

I love it TM, and I'd love a SC2k -> GTA2 city converter!
Also I find a isometric view of even the largest of the GTA2 maps very useful.
Haters gonna hate ;]

[Pyro]

well, yeah, i could use all my time for only "useful" stuff, but i dont feel like it... i guess its something you would understand only if you were a programmer who is doing programming on his free time, for free. its not that simple as just telling myself to do something... i need to want it myself too.

I understand perfectly well, you don't need to be a programmer to say what you've said. I make maps and script for "free" in my own time. The only difference is you are programming something else while I "program" the scripts - while the scale of programming is different, its really two sides of the same coin. And before you ask, yes I did use to program small things years ago in VB6 and (rarely) some C++. Anyway...

i will make the block editor, in time.

This is the biggest question - when? Currently it's a map viewer with zone editor, plus extra stuff (script reader/editor). As been said previously, the DMA Editor is "it'll do" (heck, it's god-knows how many years old and I doubt DMA thought anyone would still be using it after all this time - not bad for their own "internal" software being released to the horde!). We shall see, eh?

Haters gonna hate ;]

Really now? Because I made a comment about this new feature I automatically hate it? You might want to re-read it

And now, back to the program you were watching...

[Salamander]

Stop hatin' on me :(

[B-$hep]

I understand T.M also. Sometimes im in no mood for any programming at all.
Like now, i also worked on my map editor (and also on block editing), made some progress but right now i don't have any motivation to work on it.
Pretty much the same for ScriptPad.

I just need to make different things, i can't work on one thing for months in a row.
Electronics is also my another hobby, building, designing different useful and fun circuits. With PIC microcontrollers mostly. So that's what im doing atm.


I know how it feels. So i understand T.M.
The motivation doesn't come so quickly, at least for me, it could take months or even more, to get back to the project and pick it up again. Im talking in general, it doesn't mean that ScriptPad development is stopped for months or years.

[T.M.]

I understand perfectly well, you don't need to be a programmer to say what you've said. I make maps and script for "free" in my own time. The only difference is you are programming something else while I "program" the scripts - while the scale of programming is different, its really two sides of the same coin. And before you ask, yes I did use to program small things years ago in VB6 and (rarely) some C++. Anyway...

i dont think you would truly understand, until you build up your own project of this size. to be honest... i didnt either, before this project. I wouldnt even compare map making to programming at all, even how big script it will be, the work is done purely for your own satisfaction, its like making art, painting or writing, relaxes your brain. and nobody is gonna tell you "PAINT IT BLUE, I DONT LIKE RED!" or "IS THE PAINTING DONE YET?? I WANNA SEE IT NOW!" or "PAINT A CAR IN IT, I LIKE CARS!" etc, there isnt any kind of demands for you to do what others want you to do. Programming is the opposite of that. programming is mostly just more problems and problems to fix, and answering to all kinds of demands, it can be very stressful, and that is just the tip of the iceberg...

This is the biggest question - when?

Maybe tomorrow, maybe next year, i cannot say.

I know how it feels. So i understand T.M.

Thanks for your sympathy

[BenMillard]

TradeMark, your zone editor has a really good GUI! I used it to re-work all the zones in the GTA1 London 1969 conversion.

But the menu item File > Save > Compressed Map nearly made me lose all my zones work! It doesn't compress and save the whole map, just does the terrain or something. Clicking File > Save > Zones did save them but that's weird and inconvenient.

If it works reliably, just have File > Save (Ctrl+S) with no submenu and save all the data. Like any other application would.

[T.M.]

TradeMark, your zone editor has a really good GUI! I used it to re-work all the zones in the GTA1 London 1969 conversion.

Nice to hear!

But the menu item File > Save > Compressed Map nearly made me lose all my zones work! It doesn't compress and save the whole map, just does the terrain or something. Clicking File > Save > Zones did save them but that's weird and inconvenient.

Hmm, you are right, luckily the editor will ask confirmation if you exit! It is a bit inconvenient though, i will try to add "save all" button. It could be something like: if you press "save all changes" it would pop up a window where you can choose which data will be saved, and by default it would have selected those data's which you have edited. What do you think?

If it works reliably, just have File > Save (Ctrl+S) with no submenu and save all the data. Like any other application would.

About the CTRL+S... i cant use those shortkeys because camera is moved with ASDW I dont think its too much of a trouble to click the menu to save the map, anyways, the CTRL+S makes sense if i want to save something WITHOUT confirmation, and i totally want a confirmation on this since user may press it on accident AND because there is no UNDO, that will be horrible.

Edit 3: How about this:

So, it would pop up this window when you press "save changes" in the menu, and it would select those checkboxes which data was edited.

[elypter]

that dialog looks nice

[Cuban-Pete]

I don't know what it all means. How about also just a "save all" button next to save selected?

[T.M.]

I don't know what it all means. How about also just a "save all" button next to save selected?

you would like to save all, sty, gmp, mis, and compile mis to scr when you only edited zones? as i said before, the dialogbox would select by default only those which you had edited. but you can click them manually too (unlikely, since the settings would be most preferrable by default).

[T.M.]

How about this ?

[Cuban-Pete]

Nice!

My 2 cents:

Remove the line "save selected items" at the top - doesn't add much info that the checked items say them self already.

Perhaps change the note line just to this (when at the top of dialog, people will read that first):
"Changes made in map data are saved/checked by default (if unclear, just press save)."

[T.M.]

How bout this?

[Cuban-Pete]

To be honest... you made it better on the boxes/options, but the top text is worse. The second sentence doesn't feel English to me, more like Russian style, if you know what I mean.

"By default all edits will be saved or manually adjust below:"

[Sektor]

That text might not even need to be there. The title says it all and the checkboxes should make it obvious. It doesn't really matter, as long as it saves.

It is or will it be possible to change height, width, x speed and y speed of conveyors?

[BenMillard]

Sektor thinks like me, now. However, map should always be compressed and optimised. Also, it doesn't matter whether you've changed a particular section of the data. If you changed any part of a file, save every part of that file.

Having thought some more, I'm now thinking:

• "Save" and "Save As" item, like standard Windows GUI.
• They each open a submenu, listing the files which are open in Epic Map Editor.
• Files with unsaved changes would be enabled in the "Save" menu, others are disabled.
• No shortcut key for saving. (Other than a sequence of Alt+Letter access keys to get through the menu.)

Something like this:

• File
  • Save >
    • Map data (filename.gmp)
    • Mission script source (filename.mis)
    • Compiled mission script (filename.scr)
    • Textures and sprites (filename.sty)
    • Multiplayer map package (filename.mmp)
  • Save As >
    • Map data (filename.gmp)
    • Mission script source (filename.mis)
    • Compiled mission script (filename.scr)
    • Textures and sprites (filename.sty)
    • Multiplayer map package (filename.mmp)

Ticking/unticking menu items and persisting those settings between sessions are the most important missing features, currently. Rationalising all those menu items into a set of panels, like DMA Editor has, would be the subsequent step.

[Sektor]

Sektor thinks like me, now.

Noooo!

However, map should always be compressed and optimised. Also, it doesn't matter whether you've changed a particular section of the data. If you changed any part of a file, save every part of that file.

Always compressed and optimised is probably a good idea. Always removing hidden faces shouldn't be forced.

One file part changed, save the whole file but don't save the .mis files if I only changed the .gmp. I don't want the modification dates or checksum to change if I didn't actually make any changes (sometimes saving without making changes does change a checksum with some editors, not sure about this one).

[B-$hep]

T.M do you really figured out removing all possible hidden faces in map?
Even DMA editor removes some faces that shouldn't be removed and it doesn't undo that.

To make this work perfectly, one must think about every possible case with hidden faces in map.
Inside buildings, corners, floors, etc etc.

It's possible of course, but is it worth the effort?
It doesn't give much with today's computers and free R* optimized GTA2 version.

IMHO.

[Sektor]

You can glitch through walls on purpose in GTA2 although not sure if that would really change hidden faces since you can't see yourself when underground.

[BenMillard]

Front edge of first carriage stops just before entering the Station Stop Zone in GTA2. Epic Map Editor places front edge of train engine just before exiting the zone. That's about 1 block difference since train engine is 2 blocks long.

The difference is enough for the first carriage doors to not work, if using how the train looked in Epic Map Editor.