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Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 04 Jul 2019, 12:55
by Logofero
Hello everyone who is waiting for some news related to the game TDC.

As I promised after the release of Weapon Icons Part 11, I post the blood sprites for the particle gaming system that JernejL requested. Despite the fact that I painted the textures specifically for the TDC game, any interested developer can use them in his non-commercial project. All the terms of the license agreement are inside the archive along with the sprites.
(114.12 KiB) Downloaded 64 times

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 27 Aug 2019, 09:01
by Logofero
Hi, JernejL.

What is the progress in TDC?

I hope you continue to do it. The game should come out anyway, you know that. Here it is not in me and not in you, but in the idea, which should be successfully completed.

I would really like to see your game in action. I also want to play it. I wish you more creative inspiration and not quit what you started.

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 29 Aug 2019, 19:00
by JernejL
It's being worked on slowly - currently i'm doing AI updates, so far AI can navigate around simple vehicle obstacles and go around them, but cannot yet find long distance paths, which is where i'm implementing a complicated A* variant to work with the map geometry.

I've also replaces (improved) a lot of effects - explosions, fire now look far better.

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 29 Aug 2019, 21:19
by Logofero
It's great. I hope to see the update in your video. Do not postpone shooting short videos - this will motivate you and speed up the development process.

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 03 Sep 2019, 05:44
by JernejL
I will have more videos, i just need to get the pathfinding working, to demonstrate it :)

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 12 Sep 2019, 15:33
by Logofero
Hi guys. When you click on the link the file does not find writes:

Code: Select all

Oops! That page can’t be found.
But the file is available for download from the repository at the link

Update #1:
In general, I played TDC and I have suggestion. So, let's begin:

1. The game as a whole turned out to be shackled and "twitchy." It affects not optimized character control and not optimized car physics. The backing of the character must be faster or it should not be - this greatly interferes with moving back from the bullets. Or you can add side-to-side movements - this will improve the tactical advantage.

2. Car physics behaves strangely. Cars sometimes unrealistically bounce off other objects.

3. Management of the tank, like cardboard, it wags from side to side - this spoils its appearance. I would still make it the same as in GTA2. It would also be nice to turn the turret for the tank on the mouse cursor.

4. When shooting, there is not enough dynamic control, the character runs like a lame one. I want to "feel" the character as in GTA2, now the control is similar to the GTA1 analogue.

5. Shooting from a weapon is inconvenient; backward movement is difficult. It is difficult to aim due to slow bullets.

6. Not very expectedly behave bullets. They are too slow, small (narrow), fly close. I want more long-range, faster and more noticeable bullets.

7. Fire from a weapon on some weapons is drawn crookedly.

8. The police quickly catches up and kills.

9. Pedestrians push and deform vehicles like cardboard boxes. Objects must be much harder to move on foot.

Now from the bugs I noticed:

1. Artifacts with textures of fine red sand on the hood of a police car were seen on an integrated Intel Graphic card.

2. When starting the local server and connecting, after a short time the server crashed and was closed, and the client lost the connection.

The rest. With the naked eye, I see how much time and effort has been spent on the game, on all these opportunities. Even creating one editor is worth it. This is truly global work!

Waiting for updates for new tests.

Update #2:
Attached a log with crash. Crash occurs on an integrated video card and discrete, with the inclusion of widescreen resolution at the start of the game. The 2 logs are merged into one file.

There is also a suggestion to make the camera over a car higher and faster. This is necessary so that with a big overclock she has time to rise to the top, increasing the review. Now cars appear ahead and I do not have time to notice them. Therefore, driving supercars is not comfortable.

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 16 Sep 2019, 09:02
by JernejL
Thanks for testing, i will comment some points, i can already say that a lot of this was already improved and fixed on my side, but just wasn't published yet, the rest of issues regarding feel of the game are adjustable to suit your need.

I was not trying to reproduce gta2 feel, which is why some aspects of it are set up a lot differently than what you might be used to, so let me first address bullets.


Bullets feel differently because compared to gta2 have a different "attraction" mechanics. They are not that slower than gta2, but are harder to hit things because bullet auto-aims slightly only when fired and does not home onto target afterwards like what gta2 does. I will try to change how this attraction works, but so far this is what i managed to do, once i get back to this part of engine, i will correct this and shooting will feel much differently.
As for speed of bullets, this is completely adjustable - any bullet can be fired at any speed.

Bullet exit point in sprites was messed up, but this was fixed - not in the old release tho.


Car physics is ridiclous and not set up as realisticly. The good part of this however is - that it can be completly customized and made into realistic model if you wanted to, it's even possible to set up custom materials which correspond to how cars interact between each others when hit.

Character movement is same story: While i don't know if the last published build contains strafing, this was added and makes fighting much more refined, especially when used with rotating camera.
Same as with cars, all this can be adjusted for characters, including on-foot backwards speed and turning acceleration. If you want more responsive movement backwards, this can be changed.

The way actors touch and push cars is unacceptable - while current version of game has some workaround, it's kinda shitty - this is something i need to work on and change in the future.

Tank is improved in new version but still not quite ok, i think i will add a completely distinct class of physics parameters for tracked vehicles, including the whole "driving over other vehicles" component, this is a lot of work in itself, you can be assured this will be changed.


Police is very aggressive, it needs some tweaking, but generally is not as dangerous, i'm not sure about the old released version but for new one you can even hide and lose some wanted level.
I will continue to ballance AI, especially for police, there is a point where the game is fun any not too easy not too difficult.

Artefacts: a picture would be very helpful, but i have a feeling this is a bug in shaders on intel graphics chip, it's likely that you have gpu gfx quality set to lowest? a screenshot will help figure this out.

The crash with frontend gui resolution was likely fixed, the frontend is being removed, starting game will start directly into game and resolution & screen change will be integrated into main gui.

Server / client mode is still buggy, i did fix a lot of crashes and did some long-time tests. I think the networking library was also upgraded and it should work better with next release.


Camera distance needs some more work, it is actually on purpose like this, because i tried to limit how much is seen because with highier view you need to also have more vehicles and pedestrians, and i was still saving on resouces.

You can try rotating camera, this works a bit better for high speed driving, but takes some time to get used to.

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 17 Sep 2019, 01:20
by Logofero
Thanks for JernejL's comprehensive answer, I continue to test TDC and there are already new bulletins:

My game sometimes crashes with an unknown error, I will attach the log later. Often this occurs when entering the game.

In the Car Editor, the dummy "Walk in Door" does not work, the player also sits down as with the dummy "Normal Door", instead of entering the door.

At the expense of the shader, "Red Sand" is also sometimes visible with a discrete card on some cars. I’ll attach the screen when it will be possible to show this phenomenon.

On a discrete GT 720M 2Gb card, the game works more stable; however, when driving on vehicles, the FPS drops, a comfortable game does not work. Sometimes the physics of the game pulls the transport. It also happens that the game accelerates sharply and works in accelerated mode (as in rewinding). Therefore, it would be great to have settings to reduce the load to play on weak PCs. For example, setting the number of decals, bullets, maximum drawing distance, maximum amount of memory for visible objects, setting the quality level of textures.

Now about the editors. In the demo that is now located in the repository, the map editor does not work. With any change in level, the game freezes. Perhaps this has already been fixed in your assembly, but I decided to mention it. Other utilities: Car Editor and Texture Archiver work fine! Once again, I enjoy the architecture of your Texture Workshop! I liked the mechanics of creating a transport with a preview, but some functions are missing for convenience:

1. The ability to add new dummy to the "add" button and delete only the selected one, because adding a numerical value is unreliable it can erase all the settings and you have to start again.

2. The editor needs a history of changes to return the action back and forth.

3. I want to move the points of the polygons in real time when creating doors. It is much more convenient to move the points of the door, rather than create new ones.

4. Add dummy to set the center of the turret as not all models have a strict rotation center. I would like to choose any place on the case for mounting the tower.

5. Setting the collision of the case in the editor with a visual display of the size relative to the sprite (receiving in the parameters window or saving to * .2gl file).

I would like to add about the previous review about the management of the game. After playing longer I got used to the controls and it seemed to me rather convenient. Perhaps it was in the lags that they really interfere with the feel of the game completely. Now I find control of a certain hybrid of GTA 1 animation and GTA 2 movement. And now I even like it :)

I would also like to know what API where can I see them? Is need minimum set for car and character for tests.

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 17 Sep 2019, 06:55
by JernejL
Next version has improved error reporting, hopefully this helps identify the crash if it wasn't fixed already, i fix a dozen of random crashes monthly.

walk-in doors: animation is not yet properly implemented, the doors work fully, but the animation is missing.

Regarding your experience on different cards: i will need a screenshot of the artefacts.
The fps drops on a 720m card however are probably fixed in new version, there were about 5 distinct stuttering problems that were fixed, game itself should also not be as hard on the graphics card anymore because i've optimized particles rendering.

All particles already have a limit on how many can be drawn per frame, this limit however is high, but after some tweaking can be set to a value that adjusts based on hardware.

Map editor:
when you edit map, game should load normally, but it will take longer to load as it is transforming the edited part of the map to physics engine format, this is normal on first-load after editing, but it should load.

Car editor has been improved, the dummy editor was improved already, especially the way dummies are added and deleted.

Car editor probably won't get undo system, it is too complex and cannot benefit a lot, as anything that is messed upy is so easily changed back manually.

Doors are currently generated one-way only, i know it would be much easier to have a polygon area to work with, but this prevents some other innovative ways of creating doors - for example gull-wing doors and other special cases like trucks with ladders.
I am considering polygonal doors, but i would do this another time after completing more game, i have left room in car file format to extend this in future.

Turret center is planned, similar to how there is already a truck trailer hitch dummy point, this is a bit complex as off-center aiming for AI has to be again a special case that has to be written, so this would be a complete distinct feature that will be created together.

I don't understand the thing about collision, collision size does get set in the car editor, but this was added later, so it's possible i already made this before you mentioned it, but it's in my unreleased version.

I'm glad that you are getting used to the feel of the game, still - nearly all of the feel is adjustable, also some mechanics are not used yet - there are animations for a few things not yet used, like for crawling on floor.

Regarding API, there are some example javascript files in the data folder. The api is currently still very limited, but will grow when the rest of things are prepared for another beta release.

So, for the next release what is missing now is, the AI pathfinding put into its own thread (so that AI / police can find long-distance paths) and some more fixes to AI / police - it's getting closer!

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 17 Sep 2019, 15:01
by Logofero
On points for convenience:

City Paint v1.0

I tried again to test the map editor. Opened the tstd.cmp map in City Paint and saved it under the same name, without changing anything on the map, the game started. If you save the map through the "Save As" menu, the weight of the map increases to ~10408kb even with the "Compress" checkmark. For example, the original tstd.cmp file weighs only ~57kb. It is only noticeable if you click "Save" again, the weight of the map decreases (I have decreased to ~57kb).

When adding new objects in the editor, a red square is drawn with the inscription "Unknown Vehicle" instead of a sprite. When you go to the editor, instead of the added transport, yellow squares. When entering the game, a fatal crash occurs.

TDC Car Creator build 090818

At the expense of points for cutting doors. I meant the possibility of changing the size points of the doors. I also recommend adding a dummy center for turning the doors (on the screen this is a blue square). Screen:

Regarding the editing of the conflict. I meant changing the length, width and height for the collision model which is now indicated in game.sqlite3 in the vehicles table in the parameters: col_width, col_length, col_height, col_offset_y. It would be more convenient to edit it as in your editor for STY Editor for GTA 2. Example on the screen:

Scripts / API

Regarding script examples. There are not enough examples in folders with *.JS scripts. We need a sheet listing the API and with a brief explanation of the arguments so that every script writer who wants to write a mod can understand what the function is for. For example, I need a function to change the color of car, but I did not find it in the examples. Also, I would like to create a transport with a constant color so that it does not change when entering the game and again see where no function. It will be useful for this if you publish a list of basic functions, at least in a text file without detailed explanations.


Code: Select all

For Vehicle:
new car = Vehicle (namecar, x, y, z, rotation); // Creates a car at the specified coordinates. Returns a car object.

For Player:
playerid.GiveWeapon (gunname, ammo); // Gives the ammo weapon to the player, where playerid is the player’s object.
A minimal list of basic functions is enough.

New suggestions. Based on the 2018 TDC version:

1. Add a parameter to the game.sqlite3 database which will show the car models attached to the name of the map and default map (this transport will spawn on all maps without indicating the name). I have custom models and I want to use only them. In order not to delete everything from vehicles, it would be more convenient to add the names of models to the list and indicate the name of the map on which they will drive.

2. Add a parameter to the vehicles table with the color numbers that the transport will use. For example, I have a special car and it uses only one color.

3. Correct the effect of the "Molotov Cocktail". Now he works is strange. After the explosion, the flame moves in the direction of the player, as if it were a bullet. I want the effect of the Molotov explosion not to move, and the ground beneath it would burn for a while and leave a black mark.

4. Correct the behavior of bullets in a weapon that shoots more than 1. For example, all shotgun bullets are now flying along one path to the center instead of scattering around (in the form of a cone).

5. Add blood stains from killed ped.

6. Add the drop parameter for the killed characters. In which it will be possible to fall out of ped: weapon, money.

7. Need a particle system editor with current flags. I would like to change the parameters, seeing how the effect changes with a preview (in real time).

8. Add a parameter so that you can set the sound from bullets hitting objects, for example, a different metal sound from hitting a car.

P.S.: If possible, I will attach the log with random drops after the TDC update is released in order to maintain current information.

I have news updates regarding the use of City Paint v1.0.

If you only change the landscape, remove / add surfaces and change textures, and DO NOT add new objects, the game starts, but if you add an object and save the map, the game crashes. For this crash, I attached the logs above.

When changing only the landscape, I was able to find out that the editor does not work with collisions. There is not any visual display of the "physical" walls, but when you start the game they are. In the editor, collisions of existing walls are not deleted (only textures are deleted). The "Delete" button and the "Air" flag do not help to remove the collision of the wall.

In parallel with this test, suggestions appeared to improve the editor’s convenience:

1. In tool bars, I want to have a list with all the dynamic objects added to the map. Example: a separate Objects List window, and in it a list of object names and their parameters: coordinates, angles, flags.

2. We need a tool to enable visual display of collisions and settings. For example, setting a flag for the fence through which bullets will fly, but the player cannot pass. It is also necessary to remove old and install new physical walls.

3. The pencil should draw continuously on the tile, if held on the surface holding the "left mouse button". Since drawing on 1 tile takes a lot of time.

4. Add the Bucket tool to fill the textures with the same ID. This will speed up the routine replacement of materials many times over.

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 09:23
by JernejL
This what you describe exactly are the little details that are missing, and trust me this is not even everything. A LOT of this was already fixed, and will work far better in the next release - it's a lot of little things syndrome, so let me answer some:

Car creator does have door pivot that you can set - all the options are there. They might be a bit odd to use because it wasn't made very friendly, the car editor had a lot of fixes and friendliness improvements.

You will need to test a new citypaint, the old one was very buggy and i did a lot of fixes to it since, it's likely that most of bugs you shown were already fixed.

Scripts / API

The whole scripting is not yet complete, as said in previous post.
The whole architecture is not yet complete - how it will relate to game objects and all - this is why there is zero documentation too, there are no proper actions - just spawning chracter and basic checks.

Please don't design maps in the version you have, the file format of maps and texture sprites has changed and will not load in editors or game in the next release.

Regarding data model: it is expected that sqlite file will be herarhical - there will be a base file, and then additional files that you can add for your game - this is still incomplete.

Vehicle colors are not based on indexes, all vehicles should be red for coloring to work correctly. Some cars like police should not be changed, it's currently a hack, but i will add that to sqlite - it's on the list.

Molotovs are incomplete - i will tweak this in the future, it'll take a lot of work for it to look good.

Weapon scattering was fixed a short time ago on my side, it's not yet released, it was some sort of dumb problem with randomization.

blood stains: i would add them if i had sprites for the animation - i've looked for blood splatters with hemmoraging but it's not easy to find.
The only thing that looks proper is ... -mask.html
but this looks too cartoonish and lacks gore.. i think an artist will need to be hired to make this effect, it is not difficult to add it once i have an animation.

dropped items are intended to be scripted and not automatic, when a player dies, script should create pickups for dropped items in player's inventory.

realtime editors for everything in sqlite files are planned - i cannot give an timeline for this, because it will be a lot of work that was barely started.

sound effect differences are in the config files already - see table system, it tells which audio effect (or audio_variant) to use. this will still be upgraded, as not all object are of same material.

map editor: i think both of your problems (crash with objects and physical landscape not being affected) are fixed.

regarding material: this is somethign that was recently implemented in physics engine that i use - current game has a big change in how materials work, each tile now has a material associated with it.
and the editor also has visualization of this too.


Pencil is not yet fixed to draw continously, as for the bucket drawing - you can do this via selection + drawing on the right side (draw into the block's tile)

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 19 Sep 2019, 20:16
by Logofero
JernejL wrote:
19 Sep 2019, 09:23
Vehicle colors are not based on indexes, all vehicles should be red for coloring to work correctly. Some cars like police should not be changed, it's currently a hack, but i will add that to sqlite - it's on the list.
I meant something else. Parameter with a range of colors as in GTA SA. They called the file colors.dat. For example, I have a car in which should have its default color (no change), I put the index in game.sqlite3/vehicles table in row "Colors": -1 or 0. If I need several colors: 0, 4, 10.

Code: Select all

 | Colors   |
 | 0, 4, 10 |
I write about all the errors and suggestions I have noticed solely for your familiarization. It is not necessary to focus on them, I understand that it will not be possible and unnecessary to implement everything, but I hope that something proposed will be useful to you.

P.S.: I appreciate your free time and I really like your project. I hope you will post the update soon so that you can try it out. Now I'm doing a modification based on your build in 2018. I hope to later transfer it to a new one.

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 20 Sep 2019, 09:16
by JernejL
please note - files you might edit will not be readable in new build, the file format changes are not backwards compatible.

colors: there is no color palette in the game, you can use any color via RGB mechanism.

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 20 Sep 2019, 14:00
by Logofero
JernejL wrote:
20 Sep 2019, 09:16
please note - files you might edit will not be readable in new build, the file format changes are not backwards compatible.
I understand that I will have to do "porting". But thanks for informing.
JernejL wrote:
20 Sep 2019, 09:16
colors: there is no color palette in the game, you can use any color via RGB mechanism.
That was my suggestion. I suggested making a list of standard colors that will be found in TDC. Not all shades need them too much. Therefore, in all GTA a limited list of colors.

As now in TDC 2018 I can make the sprite color car constant, does this parameter exist or maybe API?

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 21 Sep 2019, 14:27
by JernejL
Standard colors could be something set via scripting, i do not wish to limit this in any way, just set hue, saturation and lightness and you can get any color.

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 22 Sep 2019, 07:47
by Logofero
JernejL wrote:
21 Sep 2019, 14:27
Standard colors could be something set via scripting, i do not wish to limit this in any way, just set hue, saturation and lightness and you can get any color.
I'm talking about something else. I need the command to change the color of the sprite on default (now it has a random color when spawning vehicles). What parameters and APIs are there for this?

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 23 Sep 2019, 05:16
by JernejL
None yet - there is no method yet to override colors, like i said, API will be part of next upgrades after i release the work i made right now.

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 24 Sep 2019, 13:14
by elypter
will it support cmp/gmp, sty and raw files from gta1&2 natively? this could give modding a great head start. it would be great if it worked like one of the doom engines that just need one of the many wad files available

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 24 Sep 2019, 18:35
by JernejL
A 1:1 conversion from cmp,gmp and sty,g24 files is possible without any loss, it's certainly not high on my todo list but it is doable.
In theory it is even possible to merge multiple maps into one since TDC map size is not bound to just 256*256 blocks.

Maybe there can be a issue converting some stuff related to materials and roads, because TDC uses vector roads not bound to full blocks and handles traffic very differently, but the textures and map should not no be a problem.

Re: New game: Top down city!

Posted: 01 Oct 2019, 06:40
by JernejL
1 blocker bug/feature left to new release (background audio transitions) - pathfinding is finally finished (more or less)