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Small fences
A couple of these currently block weapons but should let you shoot through them. It's correct that the fences around Buckingham Palace stop shooting; that helps confine the tank rockets!

Avoid AI 'Friendly Fire'
Tanks should never be in a position for the AI to shoot each other. Hard to avoid in some places but when there are lots of boxes, like Law Island, should be possible. See my Army Base for GTA2 for examples of deadly cross-fire which avoid AI 'friendly fire'. Also on the military island in the Vice City conversion.

In Buckingham Palace the tank positions are excellent but the central pair will shoot each other. You could set them sideways in the 1-block-deep alcoves rather than sticking out.

Gameplay Tactics
The final pair of flamer guards at each corner provide a touch of unexpected hardcore. Pyro and I couldn't beat that area in 12 minutes but it does look possible, with better dodging tactics. (We've now beaten it by driving in with strong cars, running down flamer on driver's side and immediately stealing tank. Smash and grab FTW!)

Weapons
Replacements for the non-standard weapons seem fine. Might prefer to have Health or Armour instead of Oil Slick, though! (If both of those are nearby, maybe make it Vehicle Mines or Vehicle Machine Guns?)

Maximum ammo on all weapons with 0 respawn time, please. Then we can pick up the same weapons in co-op and wreak unlimited chaos! (MultiSlayer City does this and it works.)

Conclusion
Overall this is brilliant and will definitely be in the next Master Version. The grass edges throughout London must've taken so much time! Well done.

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Liberty City always was a pain to navigate. More ramps that let you jump islands might make it more fun in multiplayer but with huge maps there is always going to be a lot of time spent just driving to your opponent.

I am impressed that all three of you are still improving this conversion. Great work!

Things I've learnt about using Sektor's ini2mis convertor:

• File paths must end with a backslash in the boxes at the top.
• Browse for folder always starts at My Computer.
• Offset for powerups is (0.5,0.5,255.0) and then change all z-axis values to be 255.0, rather than 257 or whatever.
• Offset for phones is (1.5,0.5,255.0) and then change all z-axis values to be 255.0, rather than 257 or whatever.
• Some powerups need a specific z-index because they are in alcoves.

Pyro's was converting the San Andreas powerups as well, swapping standard weapons for these:

• Electrogun
• Double Damge
• Fast Reload
• Health
• Armour
• Instant gang

I've done a basic swap of weapons, currently following this list:

• Machine Gun (01) -> Armour (31)
• Flamethrower (08) -> Electrogun (03)
• Rocket launcher (02) -> Health (30)
• Extra Life (29) -> Fast Reload (36)

The next Master Version will include JG's newest versions, plus our ones with 1st stable release of powerups in them!

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Was using Sektor's INI2MIS also for the powerups, very useful now even though it was made all those years ago Thanks for making it!

Still, what Ben said is correct, although the coordinate off-set seems to be map dependent. For example, my objects in San Andreas only needed to be offset by X: 0.5, Y: 0.5 and Z: 255.0 (apart from some which needed specific Z though INI2MIS just adds to Z rather than capping at 255.0 but easy enough to subtract). Went back through each one looking at them in TM's map viewer to make sure they were in proper places, had to fix numerous ones and fixed angles on some of the phone locations.

Other than that, tidied up the code and sorted out the names of generators and organised them, took a good 2 hours or so to get this lot sorted! Still, the weapon replacements are first draft and added a few custom ones in places (like far north-east and far south-east) and will more than likely change some in due course. Random fact: San Andreas has 92 phones alone!

Next up is Manchester which will be interesting to do

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• Old School GTA2 Mapper and Scripter.
• Creator of the original GTA2 Scripting tutorials hosted by Ben Millard.

I've added lights to the San Andreas map if anyone wishes to have a look. I was aiming to start on converting the gta 1 cars over but that will take forever.

there is a script that allows you to convert cars semi automatically

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Dec - did you use the latest Master files before you added lights to San Andreas? There have been numerous changes to the map itself over last few months so I don't want your work to be wasted. Last Master version was dated 12th November 2011 which you can grab from BenMillard's website (Edit: there is a new Master Version coming soon).

Since I'm currently in charge of sorting out San Andreas and Manchester maps, I've been focusing on numerous map fixes and multiplayer script before doing things like adding lights to the map as we don't (currently) find it essential to do since we use mission script to control the light levels at a basic level, so even in 'Dusk' setting you can still see everything properly even without lights in the map.

Edit - I think converting GTA1 cars into GTA2 is probably last on the list or might not even happen due to effort involved, especially sorting out car handlings in GCI file. Basically, don't convert any GTA1 cars yet.

Edit 2 - All the maps have been updated again and there will be a new Master Version soon and been slight changes to San Andreas map again as well as others. If the light data can't be spliced into the current map then it looks like it will be wasted effort

_________________

• Old School GTA2 Mapper and Scripter.
• Creator of the original GTA2 Scripting tutorials hosted by Ben Millard.

I updated INI2MIS.

Thanks for all your feedback, gents.


...I didn't think this would go unnoticed for long!
Your proposal of adding the drivers when onscreen sounds like a great workaround. Presumably the driver should be removed when offscreen, or would this bork things up (can you do additional CREATE_CHAR commands after a KILL_CHAR?).


All in all I think it works quite well. Not as bad as Ben's Impossible Base™, of course...


Sorted.


I might improve the pitch markings in future, but it's not a priority at the moment. So yes, it's safe for now. Nice idea with the parking bays.


Done.


Great idea - done!


Heh heh, I've only managed it with an Eddy myself


Right, shall we have a little vote on this? I wasn't sure if adding Oil Slick pickups was a good idea as they may end up getting spammed, but I added two to each map as a provisional measure. However, I wonder if it would be best to only make them available from parked 'special' vehicles. Shall we go for no Oil pickups across all maps, or make the pickups available but limit the number of generators to one or two?


Done.


Thanks, we do try . I'll see if adding some jumps between islands will be a feasible option.


Sounds great, Dec - let's just hope you used Pyro's latest version!

Master Version updated! It includes the following versions, currently attached to this thread, credited to their most recent contributor:

• Liberty City v1.3 from JG (New York)
• San Andreas v1.17 from Pyro (San Francisco)
• San Andreas Race from Pyro (San Francisco)
• Vice City v1.6 from BenMillard (Miami)
• London 1969 v1.2 from JG
• Manchester 1961 v1.13 from Pyro

As with earlier Master Versions, I've merged all changelogs into the first message and removed the completed items from the respective task lists. Took a while but most satisfying to see our collective progress.

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Yet more useful changes, cheers JG. These will go into the next Master Version.

Tank Difficulty
The whole point of Tank guards is they shoot long distances accurately, imho. Wasn't much of a challenge stealing a Tank even in single-player, when gangs are more dense and all enemies are focussed on me.

Lowercase File Extensions
Please call the script GTA1-london.scr instead of GTA1-london.SCR, for consistency.

The rest of this is about Liberty City.

Soldier Difficulty
Military garage by the train station was nice and hard. I died a few times trying to Rambo my way into there on foot.

Densities seemed just right in single-player.

Fence Solidity
The pink fences in block bullets. I don't think they should as there are big gaps between the uprights and it's only half-height.

There's a deathtrap of a railway station on the North-West corner of the Southern mainland at (116,195). If you get off the train on the West side, without turning, you land in the sea! Add a fence around that platform, please. (And the pavements leading off it, seems to have been a bit of a 'blind spot' for the original developers.)

Maybe fill in some other riverside fences which GTA1 didn't have? If there's no docks or wharves nearby, I reckon it should be fenced. (128,182) and area to the West, as an example. Slight gameplay change but it removes a "WTF?!" moment.

Wall Texture Consistency
(153,153) is a bridge side on the South face but a bridge pillar on the West, beneath the roadway. I think that should be bridge side on the West because there aren't any pillars there - it's halfway along a span.

Ambient Sounds
Was playing quite quietly so didn't notice them. But when using TM's Epic GTA2 Map Editor (which requires credit upon every use, apparently) I noticed genius placements like xxxnightclub6.

I'll put ambient sounds on the to-do list for each map which is currently missing them. Not a priority but nice to have, eventually.

Player Start Points
p2 starts on top of a phone in Liberty City - that's probably my mistake. Could you move it South to (109.5,123.5) please?

Powerup Positions
Rather sad that GTA1 never put something at (187,5). Maybe that are was blocked by fences to the East, originally? Now that it's open, how about a cache of powerups and/or give Invulnerability there?

Could put something at (206,3) as well, to make use of GTA2's jumping feature.

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I also thought it was a bit too easy, but I figured I'd release it anyway in order to get some feedback. I'll amend the code so that once a tank has appeared onscreen (ie, a military area has been infiltrated) it will then attack players. A compromise of sorts between the original tank code and the current version


Agreed. I'll change the fences to block bullets and I'll also add them in places that need it.


Done.


Done.


Nice idea, I'll add one of each

Good compromise about the tanks.

I actually think those low, gappy pink fences should not block bullets. Good to protect the places which are residential and don't have them, though.

Other changes are good to hear about.

Once you release the next update, I'll add that to the Master Version. Merry Xmas!

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No updates in 5 months? Busy times indeed!

Liberty City has received the most modifications in this update with the addition of a few more custom tiles and some tweaks made to zoning, amongst other changes. For London 1969, only the tank code was updated. The next major points on the to do list for both cities are adding parked vehicles and lighting. Of course, it goes without saying that this may take a little while...


Liberty City v1.5

• Tanks now attack players when military territory has been breached and stop attacking when all players leave.
  
• Added fences at Brocklyn Station to prevent players drowning when exiting trains (no. 400-402, palette 0).
  
• Southeast Island Heights was accidentally named as East Island Heights - now fixed.
  
• Island Heights Station zone changed to 'Local Navigation' type - this would not display previously.
  
• Changed Nolaw zone to include North/Central/South local navigation zones.
  
• Added fences to non-wharf edges near water. Collision type reverted to 'not blocking bullets'.
  
• Added quayside mooring posts from GTA1 'MISSION.INI' around edges of wharfs (replaces Fire Hydrant - GTA2_MAP_OBJECT_1159)
  
• Player starting positions tweaked.
  
• Fixed bridge tile at (153,153).
  
• Changed pavement near (038,231).
  
• Added fan sounds at (113,108) (103,030) (103,032) and (130,033).
  
• Added invulnerability pickup at (209,006). As the hardcoded generator limit of 120 has already been reached, there are not enough
  free pickup slots to add the weapons cache as suggested by BenMillard.
  
• Removed traffic arrows near (099,230).
  
• Reversed direction of traffic arrows near (163,177).
  
• Added custom tiles for bridge shadows (404,405).
  
• Yet more shadow adjustments near (192,008) (236,013) (105,031) (186,037) (196,116) and (102,234) (22,179).

London 1969 v1.4

• Tanks now attack players when military territory has been breached and stop attacking when all players leave.

Nice to see you're still alive JG and still working on this!

Is it just the tanks you've changed to attack when player(s) are in the area or on-screen? Not tried it out yet, but I think in an earlier discussion if the same trigger was used for gang members you could just stand outside and shoot with impunity .

You mentioned about adding various vehicles to the cities and the lights, I think you might have inspired me to at least do some cars parked in San Andreas and will also give me a reason to fix the version number of San Andreas; it's supposed to be v1.1.7 but actually looks like 17 different versions, so next one I'll call 1.8 and fix it .

_________________

• Old School GTA2 Mapper and Scripter.
• Creator of the original GTA2 Scripting tutorials hosted by Ben Millard.

You're right, an older version of the 'armygang' code had respect set to -5 when a player entered a military area and reset to 0 upon leaving. As you said, this didn't work very well! With the current code, respect is permanently set to -5 and tanks will attack all players only when one or more players are inside military territory; once all players leave, the tanks stop attacking. This setup works well, as offscreen attacks can now only happen when players are inside a military area.



At least adding parked vehicles around the map is a relatively quick way to add a bit more flavour. I'm thinking twice about doing the lights though, it's a huge job...

Yup. I've started adding some vehicles last night as well, can't believe how many car parks and lay-bys there are in San Andreas! I'm doing the 'not perfect parked' method with the vehicles too, makes it look a bit more natural too as well as trying to 'theme' the cars parked in different areas (nice cars up in Richman Heights, normal cars in centre of town and trucks/trailers and vans in dock areas). Even thought about little things like police car(s) parked on side of road with a pulled over car. Looks kinda crap and cars ram straight into back of it!

Will also see about adding various objects in places (already done the phones, imported from GTA1 itself) and probably change the remap of the ugly green bench chairs too.



Agreed, pretty big job to do with a full-size map. Even harder since there are no real street light textures like the ones in GTA2. Buildings will be easier to do than the roads I think.

Edit - I would like to change the palette for the bench texture but I can't seem to figure out how to do it! Trying to use GIMP and STY Tool but not having much luck (can't seem to pick a specific palette (bench uses palette 108) in STY tool to import/export to be able to change in GIMP). Found changing the hue to about -60 changes it from ugly green to more sensible brown colour. So, if anyone can show/tell me to do this I'd be grateful!

Edit 2 - Scripted in 80 random cars so far, probably add a few more in different locations. Also going to add a few more Instant Gang pickups as well since, for some reason, there are only 2! Will also have another look at powerups in general and drop a few more in. Going to start adding a couple of sounds too, like clock tower one and other ambient ones were sensible (diners, bars etc) and finally put down some objects, will have a look at the .ini file and take it from there.

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• Old School GTA2 Mapper and Scripter.
• Creator of the original GTA2 Scripting tutorials hosted by Ben Millard.

I'd be interested to know about palette settings within GIMP as well - it'd be much easier to create custom tiles if GIMP could be restricted to only use particular colours that are featured within the palette used for a given tileset, for example.

If you're looking to script additional objects, JernejL made a little program to extract those which weren't included in the MISSION.INI (such as trees, bins and mooring posts) from the GTA1 CMP file. I'd send you a copy, but unfortunately mine was lost during a recent OS reinstall. I'm assuming JernejL included it when he released his entire catalogue of GTA tools and mods following his retirement a few years back, but I can't remember in which forum that thread was made. (GTAF? Gouranga? I know, so helpful...)

I used to use Paint Shop Pro 7 Anniversary Edition a while back, it was on old program but worked exceptionally well for GTA2 work like this, especially the palettes as you could simply import/export palettes and turn 256-colour into 16.7m colour and vice-versa and, if I remember, tell it to 'make' a palette from existing colours and turn image back into 256-colour for saving.

Got it on disc somewhere, need to look for it again I think!



I remember something like that, but for the phones in San Andreas and Manchester I used Sektors program and he updated not too long ago. If I remember also, I think when Delfi first did a mission.ini to .mis for Miami there were absolutely loads of objects, cars etc that it wouldn't fit or something, can't really remember.

Either way, because we're using GTA2 objects I don't think it needs to be a perfect replica, a good example would be the dock mooring posts that were much smaller in GTA1 and don't really exist in GTA2; the closest being the concrete bollards. Will take another look at mission.ini objects and take it from there.

_________________

• Old School GTA2 Mapper and Scripter.
• Creator of the original GTA2 Scripting tutorials hosted by Ben Millard.